So, I think the important thing if you're going to keep alignments is to make sure the culture is clearly defined. If you're playing a game set in the American South in the 1850s-- dare I say that the 'neutral' position on slavery is that it's OK? I daresay that there are even characters who would align themselves as good who wouldn't view slavery as wrong.
The OTHER aspect which I didn't mention, because I was already going on at hideous length, was how much knowledge a person can reasonably be expected to have of the moral consequences of his/her actions. And THAT is what's most culturally dependent. There's just plain ignorance, and there's distancing, where you intellectually acknowledge something to be true (slavery really sucks for the slaves) but manage to distance yourself from it emotionally.
An 1850s slaveowner who honestly believes that black people aren't smart enough to handle freedom, and kind slavery is the best thing for them, could be good. I'd accept that. It would be a lot more common to be neutral, I think--to have some awareness that it's wrong, but not have enough courage to abandon the only way you can make your living, and do the best you can under the circumstances. This isn't to say there was nothing wrong with what they were doing (either the good or neutral ones), but just to say that they are lacking in awareness of the wrong. OTOH, there is such a thing as being willfully ignorant.
You're absolutely right about chaotic neutral. San in Mononoke Hime is still the embodiment of CN for me: someone who has goals that have nothing to do with good or evil, who will go to a certain length to get them but isn't ruthless to the point that she lacks empathy or commits wanton murder, and cares absolutely nothing for playing by the rules of the social contract.
(I think 'social contract' works better than 'law' because lawful behavior shouldn't solely be defined as what the law allows; a lawful character won't betray his friends and cheat at cards, though the law might not prohibit it).
Re: Mostly I agree with you.
So, I think the important thing if you're going to keep alignments is to make sure the culture is clearly defined. If you're playing a game set in the American South in the 1850s-- dare I say that the 'neutral' position on slavery is that it's OK?
I daresay that there are even characters who would align themselves as good who wouldn't view slavery as wrong.
The OTHER aspect which I didn't mention, because I was already going on at hideous length, was how much knowledge a person can reasonably be expected to have of the moral consequences of his/her actions. And THAT is what's most culturally dependent. There's just plain ignorance, and there's distancing, where you intellectually acknowledge something to be true (slavery really sucks for the slaves) but manage to distance yourself from it emotionally.
An 1850s slaveowner who honestly believes that black people aren't smart enough to handle freedom, and kind slavery is the best thing for them, could be good. I'd accept that. It would be a lot more common to be neutral, I think--to have some awareness that it's wrong, but not have enough courage to abandon the only way you can make your living, and do the best you can under the circumstances. This isn't to say there was nothing wrong with what they were doing (either the good or neutral ones), but just to say that they are lacking in awareness of the wrong. OTOH, there is such a thing as being willfully ignorant.
You're absolutely right about chaotic neutral. San in Mononoke Hime is still the embodiment of CN for me: someone who has goals that have nothing to do with good or evil, who will go to a certain length to get them but isn't ruthless to the point that she lacks empathy or commits wanton murder, and cares absolutely nothing for playing by the rules of the social contract.
(I think 'social contract' works better than 'law' because lawful behavior shouldn't solely be defined as what the law allows; a lawful character won't betray his friends and cheat at cards, though the law might not prohibit it).